Christine Brennan (USA Today) Discusses Saudi, Pay Equality & More

:45 – Christine discusses her proudest achievements as a sports journalist over the years.

3:17 – Saudi Arabia: The sportswashing debate; Greg Norman’s horrendous comments & potential players accepting blood money?

7:44 – China: What about its horrible human rights record & how are leagues/organizations/journalists responding?

11:10 – Women’s Tennis Association: Leading the way by pulling out of China over Peng Shuai & the clear message that sent.

13:02 – More Saudi Drama: The Ladies European Tour (LET) is playing in Saudi Arabia and has six total Saudi sponsored events on the schedule. The LPGA has controlling interest in the LET. What does this mean for women’s golf?

19:37 – How different would the LPGA & WTA be if Billie Jean King had been a golfer & Nancy Lopez had been a tennis player?

33:11 – Pay Equality: women’s soccer, golf, ice skating, etc… and why is paying the men & women so important?

42:57 – Brittney Griner: Is the story of her being held as a prisoner in Russia for 100+ days now getting enough attention?

48:52 – Transgender Athletes: Where does she stand on the discussion and how does she see it playing out?

56:37 – Learn More: Continue this discussion with Christine or reach out if you’re an aspiring journalists and have questions @ ChristineBrennan.com

Transcript
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right in it's said okay in three to one episode two of like it is and

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i am so pleased to have a woman who has no issue telling it like it

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is she's educated she's smart she is talented the credentials we could go on and on

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christine brendon columnist for us to day contributor for a b c c and n n

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pr we could go literally i could here like tiger woods announcing your accolade but look

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i admire people who have guts and people who ask the hard questions and that's certainly

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what you've done throughout your career when it pertains to that what are you most proud

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of

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thanks so much for having me on you

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at least it's great to be with you thanks so much for having me on your

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podcast and gosh you know i don't i don't usually stop think or look back

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now

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having so much fun and

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we

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living the adventure of a lifetime now and i'm so lucky to be able to still

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be doing this all these

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it's

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years into my career

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dirt

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just just loving it more

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i

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today than the day i started but i guess of

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oh

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course every now and then i think

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okay

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often i think of things in the past and and

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i

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things that

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guess

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have

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it

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happened

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was

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and i guess i would say that being the first president of the association women in

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sports media

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oh

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way way back in a previous century

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i

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nineteen

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did

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eighty eight

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ah

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to nineteen ninety and starting the scholarship internship program for w s m which we

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start

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call awesome starting the scholarship internship program that has awarded scholarships internships and

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what

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monetary awards to close to two hundred women now and two of those are scholarships that

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i fund in my late parents names and and i also

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m

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have my alma

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a

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northwester n i do a ton of mentaring and also have a couple of fellowships there

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and so i would hope

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and

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just giving back and and if i am

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work

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a role model or

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i've

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can be a mentor i've done a lot of that talking to s t and so

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i probably do more talking

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a

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to students than i do talking to athletes and that's fine with me certainly at this

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stage of my career so just

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you

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just helping those wonderful young p well try to get a foothold get a start

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i

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in this adventure of lifetime

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that was the

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as i said and just hopefully have the career of their dreams as i've had the

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career of my dreams

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what

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so

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you talk

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i think

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about

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that's

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mentoring

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probably thing

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young

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i protest

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people

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about

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unfortunately i'm nowhere close to student age but you've been a mentor to me it's been

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i have to say to be able to talk to you and seek your advice in

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your council and your wisdom look i think any woman who's been in this career in

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this business in the sports world it isn't always easy but to see somebody like you

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i recently saw where you introduce s a trail blazer and you certainly are you're still

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young you have a lot of time left and we hope that you continue for a

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long time because i for one love reading your columns

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oh

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i

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h

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love the way that you give your opinion and mainly because it's just full of factual

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education for your readers and with that being said you recently wrote a column and i

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love the fact that you tackled this on saudi arabia issue the crown prince and the

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billions and billions of dollars that they are now putting into sports washing relate to cover

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up this horrible human rights record how bad is it

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i think

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at least i think it's it's terrible

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tell

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and certainly that calum you're referring to was the latest of many terrible

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yeah

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headlines just one def doesn't even begin to describe it obviously but p r nightmare

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i

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also doesn't begin

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i

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to describe it but just the absolute cluelessness of people like phil michelson and so this

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particular

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i

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column that you're referring to greg norman

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all a

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where of course

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then

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he said we all make mistakes slugging off of course the dismemberment murder and dismemberment of

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jamalkoshogi a couple of years ago by the man

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who

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that he's now in business with two obviously try to start this sad golf league it

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i mean that one was was such shocking and awful thing

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o

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for greg norman

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self

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to say that i dare say the column basically wrote itself i wrote that that night

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after coming home from an event

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a

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and my editor got in touch i had seen

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um

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the news alert on what norman said m it is just oh it's awful it's awful

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i

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one hopes that this whole sody thing just you know goes

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what

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away just blows up just disappears for whatever happens to it

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i

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but that that educated or at least semi smart men worldly men like greg norman and

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phil michelson

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world

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they've lived you would assume

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ye

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that their eyes have been opened to the world would say these things and do these

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things obviously fill several months ago he apologized

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ah

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but

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i

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and then of course disappeared and who knows what his care or and

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ever

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what his reputation will

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just

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be and how he will ever reclaim

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and a

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it which is terrible and awful because i actually kind of liked phil and i certainly

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oh

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always enjoyed seeing amy michelson i never would have a meal with him or anything like

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that but just

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of

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as journalist talking to a golfer and and his spouse

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just awful

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and but

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the

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yeah it's it's just awful the arrogance of these

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that's

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men

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it

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the the sense of entitlement

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money

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um and you know

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i

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how much

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think

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money it's not enough to make millions and millions in your this case your home

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whoever

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country

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he

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if it's phil or or whoever else

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yes

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obviously grego

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take

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and

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as

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s made

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well

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millions in the united states as well

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i

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as of course being from australia

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really

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so it's

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you know

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it's really you know as a journalist i dive in

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yeah

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as a human being i shake my and obviously i'm going to stay on it as

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as many of us are

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m

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i'm certainly not alone on this one i've been on loan on other topics maybe in

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golf or one of the very few on a certain subject that a feeling we'll get

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to but in this one there's

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oh

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so many of us and i'm i'm

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yeah

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very proud and happy that there are many voices being so critical of greg norman and

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phil michelson and anyone else who i said it's blood money

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i

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pure and simple is just awful and

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do

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we should scream it from the roof tops its reprehensible behaviour and thankfully the game of

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golf which hasn't done a great job over the years of calling out reprehensible behavior

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go

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in other ways racismsexism misogeny et cetera at least this in this one we're seeing it

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and how about roy malcaroy i mean what

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yeah

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a gem he tinues to be the voice of reason such a class act i found

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him to be that way on other topics as well and

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yep

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for him just to be that voice of reason thank goodness for him and

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to

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then thank goodness

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yeah

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for tiger woods speaking out and others who have done that so i'll stay on top

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of

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i have

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at least

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no

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i

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doubt

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promise you

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and unfortunately

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and i know many of my colleagues

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i think

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will

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as you mentioned

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as well

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it's going to continue to be a story that they're not going anywhere they continued invest

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more in sports now it's gaming i mean literally billions and billions of dollars i always

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find it interesting because i tweeted about it last week and when people make comments and

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they try to compare it to china they try to compare it to other regimes and

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these repressive oppressive situations i have my own thoughts on it i want your thoughts in

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terms of that seems to be the number one thing that people fight back with is

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why aren't you calling out china

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well

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well on that one i think i've got a good answer i just spent a month

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and i know you're not saying that i'm not i know you're just asking the general

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question kind of teeming me up so

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i

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i

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just

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can hopefully it is down the fairway i just spent a month in china of course

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ah

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for the covering the olympics in february and i think the authorities in china hate me

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that

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so and i of course i'm thrilled

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by

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about that

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i

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the russians despise me i know this because my website according to my website person is

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just getting pounded by russian hackers and chinese hack hackers and other whatever they do and

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you know my words bring it on um yeah in china every day i was critical

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of course of

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oh

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the way that they handled horrible way they handled punctual the tennis player who disappeared

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to

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the world's

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the

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biggest met story ignored

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did that

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critical of the international impi committee just laid

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i

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into them quite

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no

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a few times thomas back not just in us at a column but c n n

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an a b c as you alluded to and others p b s news hour

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and it just

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and m and just of course criticize china every moment i had every chance i could

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uh people naturally asked so well then were

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do

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you censored or worried about that well no

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what

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because i'm credential with an olympic credential

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a

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and so the international limpid committee control that so there was also no dark alley to

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get kidnapped from because we're no dark alleys because we were in the bubble and you

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literally went from your hotel had two hotel

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o

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c n n hotel

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service

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in us to a hotel and car service or

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is

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or busses

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ah

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that were bubbleized and man press center and then the figure scanning venue or the opening

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or closing ceremonies and that's

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i felt

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that's

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sad

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that's all you could do so

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and i

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i felt safe as could be and

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dark

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i feel of course completely guarded and honored have the first amendment and to have

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i

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the leadership of the news organizations

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more of

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i work for and nothing was going to stop me or others from speaking out so

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anyone who says well

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oh

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oh that terrible christine brendon she's critical of starting arabia but she's not being critical of

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china just google at folks and they'll you have steam coming

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at

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out of your computer and

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on

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my

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ackhebucket

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my track record is pretty good on that even going back to critic and la bron

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james when he failed miserably to speak out appropriately for the protesters in hong kong protesting

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i

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of course for democrat in the wake of that n b a story with darrell more

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nd everyone can look that one up but oh no i think i'm about as consistent

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well since

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as

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you

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the day

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use the

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is

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golf

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long

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metaphor

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i'm

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we'll

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proud

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follow

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of that

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up with it you did hit it straight down the middle that was absolutely perfect from

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from my experience in my background obviously being in the in the golf world and

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uh

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you know i've covered all it's been my focus the last several years has been with

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golf i look at china and like i don't really i don't think that the l

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p g will go there this year i think that there will be certain because of

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what happened keep them out however saudi arabia is actually sponsoring golf events the government is

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sponsor they're putting their money into it china isn't doing that in an our sport in

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the game golf you have the blue bay l p g their sponsor by companies not

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the government so it's a big difference but yes you're right and and you regularly call

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out everybody which is why i pay us a today my monthly subscription to be able

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to read every time you call them out up players like louis

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thank

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state

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you oh

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sure

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yeah also i don't an i was gonna say don't mean to catch you off but

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of course let's keep in mind the women's tennis association showing the way for everyone by

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pulling out of china over the punctual you know fiasco and just the horrible way she

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was so there is an example of a league tennis

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i

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circuit you know an association

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not

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just doing the right thing losing money

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that

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not

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was

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an easy

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done

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decision to make but the right decision

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hi

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and that was done by the t

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i

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a at the height of the punctual controversy back in what november december so it leagues

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can do

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actually

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this

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fine

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there can be ethics

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that

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right you can actually find wonderful ethical behavior and for those who might be saying oh

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it's a w t a and this you know how can the ba or the p

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a

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g a well it's moved the decimal point one way or the

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a

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other i mean r ex for sale

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o money

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w t a that was that's a huge amount of money

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so

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that could be potentially

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i

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lost and so percentage wise that's obviously

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the

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woman's tennesis does great pays the women obviously

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and

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better than women's golf does

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you in

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and

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art

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and that's because of billyginking fighting for it

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he

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versus no one fighting for it in women's golf obviously

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okay

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um in that terrible history of the way women have been treated in golf and so

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no but but going back to this you know this is the w t a doing

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that was devastating for their business and they still did it okay you're a p g

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a you're up n b a

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that's where

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how are you going to handle this and and that's where again maybe i should say

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p g a but you're

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the

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up you know you know phil and you're up greg norman and whoever else went surgiobaba

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whoever else is apparently interested in this thing

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every question

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le westwood you know

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i

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okay they deserve every question because we've seen an example the w t a doing it

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in tennis with china and literally pulling out their business and so it really does happen

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and

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i don't know if you're aware

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i think

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of this

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we should

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but

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remember

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companies

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that

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are starting to take an interest to recently ups announced louis ustayson and le westwood were

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being dropped as long time ambassadors because of their affiliation and desire to play in the

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live golf league okay you talk about women's organizations and you're right it makes a big

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statement when the w t steps up and does something like that issue that i think

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actually i'm surprised it hasn't been exposed more it hasn't been talked about more is the

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l p g a now the l p g a doesn't have direct ties to this

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sally league it doesn't have direct ties to the ram co series which is also funded

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by the sad government however the l p g does have controlling interest now of the

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l t and the l t has six aram co events i think christine this is

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about to be a big story first of all in golf a lot of people avoid

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these stories it's not being talked about i haven't heard

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yeah

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the l p g a commissioner address it yet and i don't think that she's a

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seen it because nobody's asking i am really curious what this next phase is for the

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l p g a in terms of their partnership with the l t the south arabia

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events their player now wearing the sody logo what would your advice be what how do

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you see this playing out for the l p g a

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we

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let you're certainly correct that the media coverage is nowhere near what it should be on

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the lpgtour and that means coverage that doesn't mean positive or negative it means you cover

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it and the chips fall

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by

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where they may and the story

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i

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pop

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try

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up or you do the recording and you break a story and that's what you do

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um so you know those who cover the l p g a i'm sure of course

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we want to see the l p g do

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that's

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well and succeed

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that

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but that's not our job description our job description is to report things and engulf both

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men's and women's tours i mean encourage everyone to be journalists and not

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a

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on the take and not taking their free rounds of golf and

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oh

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that's appalling to me that that happens at the masters

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yeah

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and i guess other places as well and i think

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yes

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it does affect coverage we can i know all that

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my

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if you like because that's just you know again that's not my background at all and

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it's not the background of journalism um and

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o

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so

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o

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i think that there is a tendency in

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she

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the golf world to not be as tough as journalist as we see for example in

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the olympic world

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uh

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not even close i mean it's almost different professions

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that

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um

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i

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and it does appall me when i see that off side and again the hand outs

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the free bes people on the take and then they're supposedly covering the support and so

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i say that as a prelude to you know whether you're covering the

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just

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pa and you wanted to succeed you know of course but that doesn't mean if you're

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a journalist

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and

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you've got to report stories

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the

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and i gree with you as much as the l p g is nowhere near on

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the financial footing of the

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it

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p g a tour or any man's tour

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the

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um

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older

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you

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players

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know in terms of sponsorship for even even

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yes

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older players senior

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i

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players and whatever on the men's side

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a

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um you do you have ethics or not i'll

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ali

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go back to the w t a

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o that

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and the wa just pulling out of china and saying that's it

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and

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over punctuate i understand that the l p g a has a lot of things to

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look at in that bottom line is important and it's been fighting for years to get

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tournaments right

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it

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and to fill the schedule and to

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she

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be world wide but yeah they shouldn't be playing in

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oh

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saudiarabia and they shouldn't have saudyarabia as a sponsor i understand there might be people might

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say i haven't done a ton of investigating on this so i am not the greatest

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expert this by any means lisa but i will never ever avoid a question of yours

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or anyone's

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oh

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and i'll give my best shot

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ah

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at it um

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i

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find other places to go and

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the

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and i understand i

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right

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understand it's

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but

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not necessary apples to apples right but be better than that and follow the example as

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i've said now several times in the women's tennis association

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that

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and just don't

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as

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do business

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up it

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with bad people and you know it

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do

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would be interesting moving forward

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we know

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is the next

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the

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generation so

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i put

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you know

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off

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we know that your sweet spot for

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we

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golf

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have

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in people the consumers whatever probably at thirty five to seventy or

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a

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seventy five right in terms of those watching mostly white men right watching and buying the

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products and buying more golf balls and

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as

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get new irons and and you know a new you know rescued club and this and

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that

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it

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and you know golf vacations whatever right and buying the cars that they see advertised in

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the financial this is they see advertised what happens when that group moves

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ever

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on

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do

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moves through

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and

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to the next you know wherever it's going

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the

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and and

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i

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and then

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she

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up behind it

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funny

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of course comes the

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i

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teenagers now and the twenty somethings the ones who are living in a world that we're

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living in we're talking this

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no

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week after the horrific

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m

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shooting at the elementary school

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whatever

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in texas and just a week and a half ago

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i

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whatever whenever that was may fourteenth actually was the buffalo shooting and the tragic know horrifying

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murder

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a

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of those wonderful people in

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that

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the grocery

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generation

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store

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going

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and on and on it goes well that generation is growing up and we're also we're

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just seeing them have a different sense of social just that doesn't men theyre ll going

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to gravitate to golf in fact many probably

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this it

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won't gravitate to golf because of its inherent

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do oh

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sexism and racism over the years and also you know whatever country

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h

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club et cetera et cetera we all know and by the way i love golf i

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played it my whole

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h

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life but

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a

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um you know what kind of push will that be on entities like the l p

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g a like

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we

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the w a like the

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lack

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n b a like the p g

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every

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a tour like individual golfers who want to go off and do whatever they want to

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do the world is going to i think we're going to see more and more social

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interaction social justice social conscience these young people have grown up with

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care

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covid right they've grown up with donald trump as president for

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all

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four years

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that

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the supreme

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s

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court league an abortion

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why

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throw it all in the mix and people are probably saying why is she talking about

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this

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that on a podcast where

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cause

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we're talking sports or ostensibly sports

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i

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because it's all in our connected folks and it's one big world

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yeah

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out there and that intersection between you know the world of sports and our culture is

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now a twelve lane super highway might be sixteen line super highway

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you

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and so i think the pressure will continue to be put on on various leagues and

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whomever who are doing business with in the case of the sods

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i

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murderers and obviously just reprehensible

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you mentioned

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leadership from

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a couple

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that

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of different

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from that

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things

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country

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there so i'm trying to figure out which way i want to navigate but i want

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to start here because you said something to me several months ago that i think is

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m

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it it made me ponder and it was one of the reasons i wanted to start

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this christine i haven't told you this but it's i thought i'd get you on here

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and tell you this in fact last week i had brittany line come on and she

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was my first guest and i told her about what said and look i'm going to

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say this and when i grew up playing golf nancy lopez was my childhood hero so

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i mean no disrespect to nancy i think it's part of her culture it's the way

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that she grew up you said to me can you could i imagine if billy gen

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king had been a golfer nancy lopez had been a tennis player and i can't tell

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you how many times i've thought thought about that the last year or so since she

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said that to me so i want to turn it around to you what do you

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think it would be like

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the

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m

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love

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m

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he

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and the important thing to say as you just said i love nancy lopez i have

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known her for years as you have described i'm sure you know you know he known

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her for years and i think she's lovely and consider friends you know her acquaintances and

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certainly

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yes

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always have had a wonderful

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i

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conversation and time chatting with each other and i remember when

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oh

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she was on the cover of sports illustrated and when she won those five tournaments in

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a row

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you

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and

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woman

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the story about her dad and my dad was so thrilled that this young woman was

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just coming on taking the golf world by storm and this story about her dad and

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the the whole of course the athelic background i mean it's a fantastic so all odo's

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to nancy lopez this is not nancy lopes bashing this is

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like

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i get so what if so

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right

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so might take it as we are bashing her we are not it's just a fact

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yes

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that she and billy gen king are very different people

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and

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and um

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so long

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in the world of golf i understand

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right

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the sense of just

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i

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go

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do

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along

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and you are

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to get along

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able

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right

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to go

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or get along to go along whichever

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we

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one it is

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a

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when you are getting table scraps and when

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a

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there are clubs there are

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no

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locations

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allowed

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where people play the game quite a few

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to

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of them

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that

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that say no women are allowed and of course now

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that's

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in this

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it

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case i'm talking about any club

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yeah

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all male clubs that discriminate could you imagine swimming pool in this country that wouldn't allow

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katie

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yeah

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ladeki to dive in right now sounds ridiculous right because but that's what we're talking about

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there's

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like

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still

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this

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clubs

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go

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today

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to

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right that won't let a woman

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the

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wouldn't

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mild

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let nancy lopez drive up there you there's

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i

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one a few miles from a burning tree right um but obviously the big one of

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and

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course was

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my

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against a national and

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a

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so i understand the mindset people like nancy and others

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certain

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who've come after

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fireplace

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her who um there's certainly some real fire brands obviously who've come after her

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she

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she's not that personality but she's also came from a time when it was you really

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a second class citizen as

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i

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a woman in

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taking

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golf

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out

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and so i

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so

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totally get not speaking out but that makes billy gen king even more

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it

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remarkable

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is

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because tennis

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also of course

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um was so of course more of a man's world the and billy gen when back

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and of course we all think of bobby riggs and billy gen king which of course

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no

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was september twentieth nineteen seventy

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early

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when billy gen kame big bobby riggs a few months earlier

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court

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mother's day weekend that

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number

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same

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one

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year margaret court who

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was

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was then number one woman's

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it

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tennis player beat bobby riggs and lost to him that was the first of these

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a

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challenge matches these know bobby riggs doing his thing is the male show

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as

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and

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well

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his pig and it was very entertaining playing it up obviously as well he beat margaret

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court and billy gen king has said to many people including me i've obviously interviewed her

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many times and i know her pretty well she said while she knew at that point

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she was going to have to take on bobby

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yeah

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and beat them um that's that's guts right that is that's that's courage that's fortitude that

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is that is taking a whole sport on your back and saying all right i'm going

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to take this guy on pressure galore and then it was five months four months and

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she beat him in the astradome and you know like the whole nation was watching because

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we all had three now we had three channels

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the

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back then and howard cosell was doing the broadcast on a b c and it was

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just absolutely huge you know hall mark you know

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i

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the

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do

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first time i have ever seen a woman

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i

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on the stage with a man

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take

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in anything

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later

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political

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oh

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you know convention debate business leaders you know you you didn't see much of anything as

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a high

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a

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school kid but

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m

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you now just see billy gene

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m

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on the stage with bobby riggs and then beat him a woman finally

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and

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you

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there are

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beat him and it's something extraordinary um and there are a lot of guys out there

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maybe some will listen to this who go oh that was just pony it was an

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exhibition it wasn't a big deal and i always say to them

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m

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well maybe to you it wasn't

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h

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a big deal but to me it was and and it was huge and every time

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i

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m

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see billy i say you know what you meant to a young high school you know

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was self more i guess in toledo hills toledo ohio what you meant and i just

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trail off and she knows of course of course she knows so

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that was

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billy jean king had something in her

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death

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that was just extraordinary to just fight these battles and to take it on and of

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course she's the

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you

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one

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have

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that

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so

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fought for equal pay

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i

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that's why the us opened tennis back in nineteen seventy three i think i've got that

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right nineteen seventy three us open paid men and women equally that was the us tennis

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no

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association making that decision can you believe that in the nineteen seventies equal pay for men

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and women in the us

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did

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open

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that

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um it wimbelten did that i think it was two thousand seven that's extraordinary um so

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for me if you could see a fire brand show up

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open

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in the

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up

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world of golf

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of

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and say

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women

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open up these

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kill

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clubs

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or

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to women you're killing your sport

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that

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which is what they were doing which is

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god

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what now augustin national has totally understood and and fred ridley said as much you know

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when i asked him that question at the master's about taking so long to have women

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members and and you know he said we should have done it

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what

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sooner i mean huge huge statement of what a mistake it was so billy gen ould

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have been right for the game of golf and she would have been a blessing

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that

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for game

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up

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of golf for the

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i do

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you know for the sex is leadership of golf to

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what you used

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get hit over the head

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he

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with a frying pan forty years earlier whatever fifty years earlier and but that didn't happen

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and so i think part of it is lisa the are products of their environment so

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nancy was a product

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m

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and is a product of

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a

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the environment of golf where you didn't rock the boat and billy jean also could have

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chosen not to rock the boat but she of course her personality and everything

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a

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inside of her said i'm going to rock the boat i'm gonna gonna fight for equal

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pay we're on strike until we get you know they have the great picture

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and

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of them holding up dollar bills as

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they

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now we're

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didn't

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professional athletes and

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this is

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you

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a year

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see the incredible money that women tend to often at the end of the year a

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woman's tennis player will have made more than a male tennis

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oh

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player number one on the womens to our number one on the men's store or equal

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almost equal and of course there's nowhere nearly like

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a

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that golf

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ye

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i think there's

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i did

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another huge thing that

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the major

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has to be mentioned

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yeah

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and that is that the majors

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yeah

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the grand slam tournaments are played in the same place for tennis of course the men

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and the women are together

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yeah

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at of course

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and

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wimbledon us open you know ben french in rolling arrows and and that of course that's

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i

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been that way for a long long time while the men were getting the attention and

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the women were getting you know that's that's great well all of a sudden here comes

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billing king here comes chris evert you've

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and

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got great american stars they're winning tracy austin

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lee

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on

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but

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and on i gos martina avatalova her

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first

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story is incredible and

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women

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of course

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are

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that it comes a us citizen so for us audience the women are now taking charge

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of winning and everyone's sitting watching wimbelven on breakfast at wimblvin on fourth of july weekend

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oh

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and so

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where

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it has what has that chance to grow where is of course in golf as you

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well know the major tournaments for men and women are not in the same place obviously

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there's

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that was

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the case of pinehurst a few years go

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so

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but that

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i

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wasn't

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for

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happening at the same time

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i

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and so what you had and this

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ad

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is kind of an inside journalism thing what you would have had well before i started

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in the business you know like in the in the sixties or seventies again you know

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well well before i got into the business but you would have had

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it

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cermogenly

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then

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you know male sports riders

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a

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i'm just of making this up but i think we can imagine this would have been

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the case covering the us open

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at

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tennis

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going

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or wimbledin or whatever and the sports editor saying well go and cover billygen king or

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go right about chris ever maybe before chris ever was chris ever right well that sports

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writer who might have been like i don't want to cover women

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right

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sports he's in london right covering woman you're going to cover that right so you just

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buy that proximity

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or

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just geography forced forced that to be covered in newspapers around the country and around the

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world

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a

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and in golf you could easily have those same guys misogynistic guys sports writers again different

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era

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as

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not today's guys um

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i know

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but you could have them saying well i'm not going to cover in fact i know

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i heard it in

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you

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their

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know

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i heard them tell me this and in the nineties you know i'm not covering the

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women's us open as we were standing at the men's us open right so so that

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is

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over

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all part and parcel very long answer of this conversation though that if billy jenkin could

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have crashed landed into this world i think

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you

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it would have probably

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do

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been twenty maybe

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this

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even thirty years ahead and it would have been the best thing to happen to golf

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because as we both know now

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i

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golf is scrambling like crazy what's your biggest growth industry what's your on

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what

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tap

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has

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market

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done gneration

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women and

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but

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what have you done for generations you've put up a stop sign

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not

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saying don't come here do

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a

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not even consider

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find

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laying off go find something else and in the old days lissa they really had no

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there were no other choices

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the

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became my dad sure his daughters as well as his son could play golf i play

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a couple times a

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always

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year i've never i can always put myself well you know i'm not i'm not good

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at all i don't practice but you know i can hit the ball and and i

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know exactly what i'm doing out there tennis swimming et cetera i've always you know played

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those

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now

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it's back in the

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you

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day you didn't

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rate

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have any choice now

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on

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maybe the greatest

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earth

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woman's

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never

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golfer on earth never picked up a golf club and she's playing on the u s

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women's national socrat because there's so many choices

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yeah

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and moving forward since i'm on this you know on a role here you know what

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golf you the greatest capitalists among

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that's

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us

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the a

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the the that's the leadership of golf right the stewards there the green jackets and the

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stewards

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o

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of the game i'm talking

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at

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of course about men here almost exclusively they chose

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do

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sex ism over capitalism because of she'd

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the

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be

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dog

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selling more golf balls

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dick

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and clubs and clothing and rounds of golf

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yes

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if you had said in the the seventies yes

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yet

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we're going to have a gusto national is goin to have women members in the seventies

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was

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or eighties we're going to encourage women to play this game that would be the capitalistic

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decision i'm a big capitalist and we all are i'm

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yeah

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sure you are and and you know i'm all for that that's america that's our country

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and i want everyone to succeed and so to think about that

Speaker:

the

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that these

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lame

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capitalists

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door

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chose not to make money they chose to slam the door on fifty percent of their

Speaker:

potential

Speaker:

obvious

Speaker:

participation participant

Speaker:

we don't watch

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group right fifty

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my

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percent

Speaker:

god

Speaker:

of participants they said no we don't want oh my god got to be

Speaker:

ration

Speaker:

the dumbest business decision on earth and they did it willingly and they did it for

Speaker:

generations because of sex ism and missogeny

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a

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they

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at

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didn't

Speaker:

first

Speaker:

want women around them on the golf course

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i

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especially on sunday mornings or saturday mornings and look what it them now scrambling like crazy

Speaker:

bush

Speaker:

hoping hoping hoping that they can have the demographic push

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in

Speaker:

that to to keep the sport vital moving into the now the thirties forties and fifties

Speaker:

in this country

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i

Speaker:

and i think it's over i think they've already lost most of those women to marathon

Speaker:

half marathon palates soccer leagues valley ball leagues so many other options for those women and

Speaker:

those women will have disposable income the rest of their lives and would be great golfers

Speaker:

no

Speaker:

and instead yes some of them you get a few but not nowhere near the numbers

Speaker:

of half marathon mrathons all the other things i described and many many more so it's

Speaker:

a fascinatin i'm just absolutely fascine by this watched it happen it's like watching a train

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wreck in slow motion

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it always

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how golf

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amazes

Speaker:

is so

Speaker:

me

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mismanaged

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christine

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its future

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no i just yeah it's a subject that we could

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so

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probably

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not that

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talk

Speaker:

i have any thoughts

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for

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on

Speaker:

hours

Speaker:

that topic

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and i always wonder who's married you mentioned burning tree i mean there are

Speaker:

yeah

Speaker:

still several all male clubs in the country who's married to somebody who is a member

Speaker:

at that golf course and that's part of what i talk about often or the women

Speaker:

don't stand up who don't fight for it and i get that for many women you

Speaker:

mentioned nancy lopez it was part of her upbringing part of her culture that's not the

Speaker:

culture now thankfully people like fred ridley i do think that he's genuinely trying to change

Speaker:

i know that he has two daughters i love what he said to you just the

Speaker:

admission of it and to say i wish that we would have i think about what

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would against a national as much as i appreciate the fact that they have the female

Speaker:

amateurs there what could they do for the l p g tour unfortunately i don't think

Speaker:

it will ever happen i hate to be a nasayor when you look at and look

Speaker:

you recently guess this the us women sucker team and their six year battle for pay

Speaker:

quality you were recently on on a b c and d you talked about it and

Speaker:

i love what you said you said look they br in they bring in an audience

Speaker:

they're bringing in championships they're bringing in trophies you credited the men the young men for

Speaker:

their willingness to be a part of that to be a part of the change golf

Speaker:

is different because there aren't the ratings there isn't a tiger woods there isn't this a

Speaker:

couple of times a year i make the mistake of going to the to the official

Speaker:

earnings and i compare i don't compare one third and people always get up in arms

Speaker:

they think that i want equal pay like sucker again i understand the ratings differences and

Speaker:

there's always probably going to be the paid disparity because of that golf in terms of

Speaker:

earnings is kind of like the wealth gap in america it's getting bigger and bigger and

Speaker:

bigger that gap is and it's not really number one i mean you look at scotty

Speaker:

chefleri's one four times this year but if you go to the top or on the

Speaker:

female side jennifer cup she's made nine hundred thousand dollars which is good she's one of

Speaker:

major she's done well you have to go down to number one hundred on the p

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g to her

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oh

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money list to get to one hundred

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m

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to get to where is at nine hundred thousand the one hundredth person has earned eight

Speaker:

hundred ninety six thousand dollars in this day and age of me to in this day

Speaker:

and age of these companies wanting to l eight women and on the golf side we

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have c m we have k p m g we have a lot of companies that

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are stepping up there's a wall mart northwest arkansas championship where the overall persis two point

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three million dollars that's like me going into a wall mart and dropping a penny on

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the ground what has to happen in terms of players speaking out executive leadership at the

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l p g

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hm

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a to say look we're not asking for the world we're trying to close the gap

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a little bit how do you do that without the rating without the revenue that the

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p g tour has in your opinion

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i was

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of course the first thing i would do and

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i

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this is going to have everyone have you know running and wailing all the all the

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guys who

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oh

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happen to be watching us here so i hope they can control their emotion

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yeah

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it is you know the us golf association

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and

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us g a is a national governing body and what we're talking about with socker of

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course was the national governing body

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m

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how many times have we heard the commercial for the good

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uh

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of the game right

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yes

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s g a

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we

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m

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wanted to do what

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f

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did

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it really wanted

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what

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to do what soccer just did what tennis did back in the seventies as i described

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earlier us tennis association and what us gymnastics does paying gymnast equally

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a

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what

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all

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us figure

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art

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skating has done michelle quan and male counter part male counter pat got the exact same

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price money as michele kuan even though she was a far bigger draw that's an interesting

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i

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one isn't it for us figure skating us a swimming

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i

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alebdressell

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first thing

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kabiladecki equal prize money first thing the u s g

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a

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should do is pay the women equal to the men

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i

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at the us open

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had

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and i've even had former um well just to protect the identity

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ship

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of this particular person will say former leadership of women's golf

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yes

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in general

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go

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argued with me thirty years

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a

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ago against paying women equally at the u s open so i've been writing and talking

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about

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and

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this for thirty years

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i

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and i said to this person i said i will just take your are on the

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record comments

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record

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from you well just those off the record because if i report i like you and

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we have a nice relationship if i report that on the record right now in us

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a today you will be fired tomorrow there was one of the great leaders of the

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women's game

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that

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arguing against equal pay now

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things

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that was in the

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then

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nineties and it was i had a big smile on my face as i said well

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i

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right

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will put this off the record which like no journalist ever does right

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we did

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not looking for a pat on the back i just thought

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it

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well this is so ridiculous i can't even imagine you

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to

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said

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go

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it so as a human being we will

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m

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i will not quote you and get you fired or in trouble or whatever it was

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going to be again and i'm not looking for a pat on the back it

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yeah

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just seemed like the right

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good

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responsible

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for you

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thing for me to do and that's one of the reasons i think i've been around

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along and and have the relationships

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don't

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i do

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like

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even with people who hate me or don't like me or whatever they feel

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oh

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about me

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so

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anyway so

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you want to be like

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that's number one if you want to be like every other national governing body in the

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united states s g a pay him equally what the argument is in that particular person

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that day

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one

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in the nineties was telling me

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this

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this well it would skew our money list

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is already

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well then make a percentage of it go

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maybe

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to your money

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don't

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it's already the biggest

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all of

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prize of so prize money then maybe don't

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fer

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count all of it towards the money list i don't

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you

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know

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really want

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figure it out pay equal because if you really want to grow the game and that's

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the reason like i mentioned figure skating a few minutes ago why did us figure skating

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decide to pay the top mail skate are the same as michelle

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i

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quan when michelle an

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oh

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you're one of the rock stars of all

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as

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generations

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a

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and figure skating because i

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why

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was

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i

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told

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make

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by

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sure

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the u s figure skating leadership

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point

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they wanted to

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it

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make sure to encourage the boys to be able to continue to skate because they want

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to

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so

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boys skate as well as girls so if you pay equally then mom and dad see

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that your kid could make the

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this

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same money as michelle quan so this is where golf has failed miserably absolutely failed miserably

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i'm sure people are just gonna just like tearing their hair out what equal pay for

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the us open yes it's happening

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like

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at every other national governing body golf

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a

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is lagging behind

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and

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by obviously you socker just handled this and the golf should do it too and then

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figure out the prize money and balance um and you guess what you're going to have

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honey

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mom's and dad's look at that

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all

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prize

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down

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money in that check say honey put that sacer ball down put that sofball bat down

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put that volley ball down you put that cros stick down we're going to the driving

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range and you will grow your game in a way that you never would before but

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he don't see it this way again sexismsexism

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yeah

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sexisamlisa let's just say what it is um because otherwise in twenty twenty two the men

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and women

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i've already

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who

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to

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run the u s g a

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it should

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should

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be

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have already thought of this and they should be leading this and mike an maybe i'll

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get m call or talk to him at some point why isn't he done it and

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it's because again it's kind of like nancy lopes being unable to speak up right even

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if she wanted to because table screw so women get table scraps and that's okay and

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golf

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a

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and i'm happy to just say call it what it is because i've covered so many

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other sports and so fortunate to cover you know the olympics since nineteen eighty four it's

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just absolute blatensexism it's awful and it should

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a i

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stop

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love

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and you're killing your game folks and i love your game i love golf i don't

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hate golf i love golf as far as the then the free enterprise ide right the

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which is not what we're talking about with the u s g a that's a non

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profit

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so

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all

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now

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those ngbs are non profits so now the

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that

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l p g

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is

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a the p g a m

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and

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that

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so

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is business and so i am you know i would hope that more more companies would

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want to get valedpromenica actually headquarter in my home town of toledo is now going to

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be the presenting sponsor

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oh

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of the us women's

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that

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open that's a very big deal and that's a new thing for the u s g

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a

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i

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so you know i think i'm hopeful i'm very much a glass half full person not

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have empty i'm very optimistic about everythin and i'm hopeful over

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women

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the next

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are

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ten

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running

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to fifteen

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on

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years

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at

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as women are running the country as more women run for president more women in the

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senate house et cetera more women coaching women you know leader in all ways running universities

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more and more women in the

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a line

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c suite of whom we've played sports because of title line i'm hopeful that we'll see

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more of that but i'm not going to tell a business what do other than

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i

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i would hope that you would see the incredible opportunity to appeal to women

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this

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obviously women have been and will continue to be the ones making the decisions in the

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household whether it's single women whether it's women who are

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whatever

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married

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it

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divorced

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might be

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women who are widowed

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out

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whatever it might be i think it's you know the numbers are extraordinary about the consumer

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decisions made by women and

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what

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more and more women are going to say hey i want to see a woman playing

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golf for i want to see a woman playing sports not just a man we're seeing

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that than ever before

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just think

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and i am really really

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i

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happy to see them say

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i

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that

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don't

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some of the things that the advancements were seeing i don't know that i would have

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really expected them so soon and i know a lot of people

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rain

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are saying what so soon but we have been so ingrained with men's sports which i've

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covered my whole life the vast majority

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i

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of sports i've covered men sports obviously n f l et cetera but we're getting there

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and we're getting there pretty quickly and again it's that younger generation that i mentioned earlier

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that's pushing pushing on on guns pushing on abortion issue pushing on all these other things

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when agree to whatever you feel

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there

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i'm not making a political statement i'm sang they're

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that's

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there an they're goin to be talking about this and that same kind of thing that

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ten year old today when she's a thirty

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think

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year

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she's

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old with a your old daughter i think she's going to wonder five year old daughter

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to see nothing but women's sports and she will be making the buying

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i

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decisions in that in that family in twenty years from now in that little scenario that

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i just came up with so so you got this companies

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as one

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need

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so

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to get with the

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recently

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plan here pretty

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told

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quickly

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me

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i would

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and

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think

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they've

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i

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made

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hope

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a big

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anyway

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commitment to women's golf he said not only do i care equality and care about pay

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equality and raising this it's also good for business and they're doing a lot of functions

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and involvement with the l p g a and and making a big statement because of

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it and really making a big differ it's for the tour in general okay i know

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you only have a little bit of time so i want to ask you two more

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questions away from golf their big stories right now and one of them i don't think

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is getting enough

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sure

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attention and that's the writin grinder issue it's still on going where almost one hundred days

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she's been in russia why is it not talked about more

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i can

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yeah you know lisa i think it has gotten a fair amount of attention that the

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story obviously

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focus

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being the story briney grinder of course

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i

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being the focus i've talked about it quite a bit

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more

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i think and i think it's it's getting more attention

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there

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and i think

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that

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maybe that's maybe the good news there

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what is

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that i agree with

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this

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you

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thing

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when it

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i

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happened

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didn't

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i was

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find

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actually

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out

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in basing

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go

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and we didn't find out

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i

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for a couple of weeks

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the

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one presumes it was because the authorities the us was trying to work behind

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a

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the scenes to resolve it before came out right which makes perfect sense

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thing

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back channel

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five

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what have you that didn't

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she

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work and of course at the exact same time that that she's being

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please

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arrested

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don't

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for allegedly

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no

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bringing cannabis into the country we don't even to

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yes

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if that's true or not you know of course we have no idea

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oh

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we can't believe russia as far you know you know anything on any topic ever i

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mean putting the awful horrors that he's unleashed

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i then

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crane it's just it's just you know it's it's just reprehensible

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great

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on every level

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we

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puttin you know one of the great one of the worst but evil villains

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that

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of any time history so but as that

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yeah

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is happening as he's invading ukraine this happens so you know any

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the way

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any hope

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does

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for a quick solution

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he

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clearly went away because now you've got russia obviously in a war against a sovereign nation

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that that it started to you know to attack

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um

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that country and

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i

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so

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think

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so that certainly

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i

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didn't help um i think but

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it just

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but over

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a

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time i really do believe that the story is getting more attention i agree

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o

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with you it has

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remember

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not gotten as much as it should but it's gotten more

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it's

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remember when we got the news of the re classification a few weeks ago m meaning

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that she's being you know held against her will that

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i

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us can maybe do more to try get her out and not worry about negotiate ting

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um that was the lead story on

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or

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the ones radio on w top here in d c

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more

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hour after hour after hour

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i know people

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so i do think it is it's getting more attention i know p i said to

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me you know

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ah

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what if it were larn james right or step curry um you know i

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how

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think

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many

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button would

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a

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have loved to

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and

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have had

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i think

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have

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it

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any

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a

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us athlete and i think frankly he might have wanted to you know be just as

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tough or

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i

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not

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have

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willing

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a

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to negotiate if he had lebrun

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but

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james

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go

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ridiculous scenario he doesn't have lbrnjamesbut but i've got to believe of course that would would

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have been non stop coverage for sure so that it is different that it's a woman

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in

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versus a man but but i do think the world knows and

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and

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i think you

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act

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media is doing a

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she's

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better

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involve

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job of covering it

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yeah

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and in fact the issue involving

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yeah

Speaker:

it which is that why is she playing in russia why is she there and when

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i said lebon james or step curry i'm sure people are like well why would they

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be in russia you just made my point folks she has to be there

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oh

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because the pay is so low that we just you just asked me about in the

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n b a again that's a league that is not a national governing body us a

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basketball would pay its men and women the same if it doesn't i'm sure it does

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for bonuses you know for gold medals things like that at the olympic or world championships

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i'm sure that that's the case but then you throw n b a w n b

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and of course it's different that women don't make as much money don't make anywhere near

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at

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the money the fraction of the money the men make so then

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what

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they

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the

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go over seas to make the

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that

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really to make quite a bit more money for that time period well into over a

Speaker:

million dollars most certainly in brine grinders case so anyway it's it's a tough one and

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a

Speaker:

it's all born of the inequalities we've been discussing and obviously briney grinder in addition to

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being

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to

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a woman and being a female athlete

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a

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also is black and also is gay and throw all that in the mix and

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yeah

Speaker:

it's probably everything that put hates right

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oh

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he hates americans he don't you ever see women around him you know i don't know

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he hates his women i don't know what he is but there's sure no women

Speaker:

um

Speaker:

leaders talking to him in any of these

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up

Speaker:

pictures

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yeah

Speaker:

he certainly

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think

Speaker:

we know he is

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of all

Speaker:

gay people because of his anti gay propaganda law whatever that met at the fourteen soche

Speaker:

games i covered where he was

Speaker:

what

Speaker:

you know obviously cracking

Speaker:

of course

Speaker:

down on

Speaker:

i

Speaker:

on homosexual rites before entering those olympics

Speaker:

i

Speaker:

and that's where the great you know wagner the figure skater spoke out in the u

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s and then on russian

Speaker:

wow

Speaker:

soil against that among others she was leading the way against put

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m

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while she was in russia talk about guts and courage and so

Speaker:

m

Speaker:

so putten we know his history

Speaker:

m

Speaker:

so he's probably like loving it right that that he

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a

Speaker:

has this

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is

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this wonderful

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but

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athlete and human being

Speaker:

on

Speaker:

who

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marian

Speaker:

also happens to be gay

Speaker:

i

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and black and a woman in americ and you know that

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oh

Speaker:

that he can

Speaker:

a

Speaker:

have her and keep her captive i also hope it's going to be resolved soon

Speaker:

to

Speaker:

we

Speaker:

day

Speaker:

saw the one you know hostage be released there's another and and then of course britany

Speaker:

grinder so let's let's hope that it gets resolved soon and i think as i said

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maybe i'm little too optimistic on this one but i do think

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good

Speaker:

us medias in the worldwide media is doing a better job now certainly than they were

Speaker:

good and

Speaker:

months

Speaker:

i think

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ago

Speaker:

that you

Speaker:

on

Speaker:

addressed

Speaker:

this

Speaker:

it well

Speaker:

very

Speaker:

i mean

Speaker:

very

Speaker:

i've seen

Speaker:

important

Speaker:

people

Speaker:

story

Speaker:

mentioned as you said what if it was lebron james i appreciate the response and that's

Speaker:

good to hear that it's being covered appropriately you think i have seen you speak out

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yeah

Speaker:

about it i haven't seen as many up until the last couple of days and hopefully

Speaker:

that will continue and we'll get her home okay lastly it's another issue that you talk

Speaker:

about it on social media and it drives folks crazy it's it's probably more controversial than

Speaker:

anything in sports right now it's the transgender issue you go back to leo thomas at

Speaker:

pen and what happened she didn't end up breaking any records at the n c a

Speaker:

and christine it's one of those things again i think that it's a lack of education

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i've been reading a lot about it i recently had a conversation with a transcender for

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i'm going to get her on here because she's been undergoing hormone replacement therapy for four

Speaker:

plus years her swing speed is not close to what would be the fastest on the

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to her there is no reason that she shouldn't compete when you look at this overall

Speaker:

how do we get past where we are in the controversy in all sports

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i know

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i was going to say how much time do we have and obviously

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to

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you know this is a topic i think lest that if people are watching there's some

Speaker:

kind of time caps and they're watching us fifty years from now they may still be

Speaker:

talking about this subject because you know what horrifies me about this story is that it's

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everyone is

Speaker:

it

Speaker:

entrenched

Speaker:

there was

Speaker:

black or white right

Speaker:

do with

Speaker:

and everyone fights with everyone

Speaker:

but

Speaker:

we know with lea

Speaker:

dear

Speaker:

thomas that she spent

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and

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two years

Speaker:

she

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taking

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not

Speaker:

hormones and

Speaker:

it was the

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if she had not taken hormones of course those were during the pandemic

Speaker:

it's a

Speaker:

so she

Speaker:

hell

Speaker:

could kind of obviously

Speaker:

and

Speaker:

wasn't getting she could do this on her terms and one only imagines

Speaker:

think

Speaker:

how hard this is and the mental anguish

Speaker:

o

Speaker:

and everything that

Speaker:

right

Speaker:

that goes your heart goes out i am a hundred percent for transgender rights and i

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totally get

Speaker:

m she

Speaker:

it must be who can even imagine right what you're going through the reason though she

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took

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a

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hormones and she needed to take hormones is because had she not then with the testostron

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level in her body she would have

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i

Speaker:

tested positive and never been able to compete so when people

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like

Speaker:

are screaming at each

Speaker:

to

Speaker:

other not you and i obviously but in general and like either so you know one

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way or another

Speaker:

i

Speaker:

i actually

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did

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see gray area and by that

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or

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i mean once you're

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are

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taking the hormones where are we on medicine i watched

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as

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leo thomas and

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i

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i want leo thomas

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understand

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to succeed in every way i also do understand

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a book

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parents

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right

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i don't think they were

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watching

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transfhobes

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i

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parents who

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their

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were

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daughter

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watching

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he

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pen parents with their daughters and they were concerned i think that

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cveration

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is you can accept that as a normal conversation i'm not saying they're right wrong but

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as a journalist looking at the situation

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yeah

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these are not easy issues right one of the huge problems that comes in is when

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a

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you get politicians involved and they pronounce something and have a state law you're talking i

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think it was the utah governor that vito that

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yep

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right i think it was what four

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so

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you said there are four transcend athletes were talking about and so we're not going to

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have a lot i think everyone needs to tell a step back be human understand

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and

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those

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to

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who aren't quite where you are and know that they're not terrible

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this

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people because

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all

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that

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over

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is the thing that bothers me the most is the vitriol over something that everyone

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a

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is working

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think

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through trans athletes most important

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of

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as

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those

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they worked a very

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i

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very difficult time in their

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a

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lives but also those

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i don't

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who are

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think

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part

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that

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of a

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is

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team where it may affect

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a

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them i understand that i don't think that is a terrible thing as i said to

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start to have to work through where the liotomas story takes us

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he

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and of course she did with one n c a o and she and then others

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she did not do as well as expected obviously the pressure must have been enormous

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all

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and

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time

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there were lots and lots again of issues all people all sides

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yeah

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the you know it's just it's tough right it's a tough it's a tough situation for

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everyone i'm hopeful that every single one of those people that was working their way through

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the

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it also believes completely in transgender

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port

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right we have other issue of course of women's

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like

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sports has been a from lack of a better word protected

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the

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class so understandably right we want women's sports to be able to thrive as women's sports

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that doesn't mean you don't want transcend our athletes but it means there is that conversation

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bow

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we have had over the years about

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i

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strength

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we

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size muscles everything

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i just

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men versus

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yes

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women

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no

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obviously again la is a woman

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so

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one hundred

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i

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percent um so i think moving forward

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for everyone

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as tough as this was for leo thomas

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how's the

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and for everyone involved my heart

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i

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goes out as i

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where

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said especially

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there are

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to

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experts

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lea i

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did

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think

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go

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moving forward

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way

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where there are experts

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she

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and people working their way through issues that

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the

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are human and

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the

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are meaningful

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mist

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and are important and we all care about in the midst of

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or

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the

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our

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screaming

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way

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of everyone screaming at each other and work

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just

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our way through as i said you're already taking hormones should where where are we at

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the right place with hormones the medical people involved make sure that you are dealing with

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everyone fairly the transgender

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again

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athlete and those athletes competing against her or him

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i also

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in the case

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think

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of a transgender mail um and i also think the scare tactics donald trump getting involved

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were

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bice

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protecting women's sports that was terrible fox news getting involved that we're protecting they don't care

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about what sports they just see a wedge issue that they want to have

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yeah

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voters get all upset about stop it these are people's lives there are medical conversations to

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be had and i hope when i'm saying this no one's saying oh she's gainst transgender

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athletes i am not i do

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the

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think

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way

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that there

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handle

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are very

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this

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important issues

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the

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moving forward in the way we handle this so that we look out for especially those

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wonderful people who work through such

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what

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a tough time in their

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yeh

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lives but still want to compete in sports and

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to

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i hope i've given some kind of answer

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i

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that

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think are

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is

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really

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i do think we are in a really

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we

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interesting and imp tant time and we have to be human and not political and understand

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that there are people who are adjusting and getting used to this

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oh

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and it affects everyone's life most of all again these transgendora athletes who have gone

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well

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through

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i think

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so

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your

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much

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opinion

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and should

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from

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be

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the

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welcome

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human side

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in sports

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is what matters most and you're exactly right there need to be more studies there needs

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to be more education we still have a lot to learn about it and these studies

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are just under weigh we may not have answers for five or two years christine brendon

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i could talk to you all day long and you have been gracious with your time

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for that i thank you and really i just want to say thank you not just

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for being a friend and a mentor to me but you're an advocate and you do

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it with facts you do it with heart and look people may not like you but

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they better respect you because you bring it every single time and i'm just i'm grateful

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to know you and i thank you for everything that you've done for me and for

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all women and for all people humans

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well thank you le sais a pleasure thank you for having this podcast having me on

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and all

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well

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you've done and how

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a

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you've spoken out as well and of course i know you're a much better

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no

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golfer

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way

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than i am there's that too

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oh

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that's very important but oh no definitely you are yes you are very good i am

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not very good but i love the game but then you and

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i your

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let's let's

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watching

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talk again and i certainly

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was

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here and anyone is watching who wants to deal with any of these talk more about

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any of this or especially young women or young men who are interested in journalism ivewebsite

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is just my name dot com and i have a student tap there and there's some

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imbedded videos that can give you some information and help and ideas for potentially for your

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career

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oh

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as well as anything else you might want to talk about

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i

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it can be there's a contact easy form as well for me on

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yes

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the on that website which is just christine brandon dot com

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